Sunday, April 27, 2008

"But then God told me, he's like ..."

I've always wondered how people are able to determine what god's will is.

For example, apparently god saved people last night from further serious injury, according to those injured

'Angels' prevented deaths, more injuries: concert-goer


OK. Or maybe this 'god' fellow caused the collapse because he, like everyone else is a critic and he thinks that Starfield sucks?

"God was totally around the building, that's why no one died, because God was protecting everyone," she said. "He had his angels around us." - Bethany Blois, injured person with bad musical taste.


Ok, Bethany. We get that you like god and all, but I think you have to stop making excuses for random occurrences. The floor collapsed, you only fell 10 feet. Sucks, but coulda been a lot worse. As for god, I'm told by the voices in my head he was over at the Pestilence show, head banging. He's vengeful, according to some.

51 comments:

Jasmin said...

you know wat..you have no reason to judge people...everyone has the right to believe what they want and if Bethany believes that was a miracle than why does that bother you so much? Over sixty people fell and even though I'm not a Christian I know without a doubt that it was a miracle no one died. You werent there so how can you possibly know or judge the people that were there. You have no idea how traumatic it was and how this incident could have possibly resulted in the death of many people.

Spamfighter said...

Really jasmin? No DOUBT it was a miracle?? OK then. Prove it. there must be some empirical fact you can come up with. I'll be here, waiting for you tp prove the existence of god, of angels and of miracles.

Karyssa said...

humble spamfighter,

ok, so u know wut?? if ur so intelligent why dont u show me why ur side of the "your story" is true!! PROVE IT!! I am jasmin's friend, and we all go to a none christian skool, but we have atleast 50 people standing around us, angry, that u feel that you even so as think that you have a right to juudge bethany!! cuz u have absolutye NO right to judge her.... she is one of my good friends, and if u wanna screw around with her, by posting ur opinions, then u know wut?? u can do it to ur friends, but u do not go and say such things about mi friends!!

Spamfighter said...

Karyssa,

Tell your friend she is a liar and will burn in hell for her sin. She wrote saying she isn't a Christian. Now, you say you two go to a "christian skool" (where they don't teach proper grammar or spelling).

Apparently 'everyone has the right to believe what they want' except atheists, is that it?

Tell you what Hon. I'm glad, truly, that Bethany, Jasmin and yourself are all fine and escaped serious injury. But it wasn't god. there is no god, and if there was one, why would HE bring a terrible disaster like you suffered down on your heads? Someone not believing enough? Someone a 'sinner' in your midst. So why tae out 60 people at a concert, or was his aim just off that day?

If so, then why didn't HE 'strike ME down', since I truly don't believe at all??

Your challenge to me to prove I am correct is just silly. Or can I just make stuff up, and then its your job to prove that? See how that works. There is zero scientific proof of the existence of a god, any god. If there indeed existed a god, there would be maybe a tiny shred of such evidence, don't you think?

Ah, but you probably don't think. You probably just believe, unquestioningly. how very sad that you are wasting the brain you were born with.

So, again, I ask you to provide proof, any at all of the existence of god, of angels and of miracles.

I am so smart. I'll be able to look at the proof and admit I am wrong should you provide it.

I'm waiting ...

Karyssa said...

first of all, i think that u have absoluty no heart, cuz u have no clue how much ur hurting us by saying that my friend can burn in hell... second of all, i'm not ur hon!! i dont even know u!! ur not very smooth with the ladies!! i said that everyone has a right to beleive what they want, but not that everyone has a right to make fun of other ppl cuz of their religion...and i said that i DONT go to a christian skool!! if ppl were to fall 15 feet, u dont think that everyone woul've died??? yes, i'm glad that we wern't heart, but by ur hurtful words, ur hurting us emotionally!! God's aim is NEVER off!!

i dunno about u, but i have STRAIGHT A's all mi life!! if u think that u know me from just 2 comments i posted, u better think again!! if God wuznt there, dont u think that ppl landing on speakers and amplifiers, would've surely died??

think about that before u reply!! use wut God gave ya!!

Spamfighter said...

"first of all, i think that u have absoluty no heart, cuz u have no clue how much ur hurting us by saying that my friend can burn in hell... "

I don't believe in hell, so saying so meant nothing. If it means something to you, then I guess that would be pretty harsh. However, if she didn't lie, she didn't sin, ergo she has nothing to worry about does she?

"second of all, i'm not ur hon!! i dont even know u!! ur not very smooth with the ladies!!"

I am conversing with a naive little girl, not a lady.

"and i said that i DONT go to a christian skool!!"

Oh, I'm sorry, I misunderstood you when you said "and we all go to a none christian skool".

"yes, i'm glad that we wern't heart, but by ur hurtful words, ur hurting us emotionally!!"

I apologize for that. Again, I am truly glad that you and your friends who don't go to a Christian school but were at the dance at a Christian school were not hurt. Truly. but it wasn't god how saved you. Why would such a creature allow something hurtful like that to happen to nice people like you? that isn't something to pray to, it is something to be feared and ultimately dispensed with, like cancer.

"i dunno about u, but i have STRAIGHT A's all mi life!!"

Yes, I can see that from your comments. Your spelling is absolute perfection, your logic infallible, and your grammar would make a graduate of Eton jealous. They grade on a curve over there, don't they?

"if ppl were to fall 15 feet, u dont think that everyone woul've died??? if God wuznt there, dont u think that ppl landing on speakers and amplifiers, would've surely died??"

No. Go search for crashes and collapses on Google. How many died. Yes, of course your answer is God was there too. So why wasn't he there BEFORE the collapse, to prevent it?

"use wut God gave ya!!"

No thanks. I prefer to use my brain, and my intellect.

Spamfighter said...

By the way, I want to offer a point of clarification here.

There is an implied notion, sometimes even an assertion that those who don't believe in god are bad people.

The atheist I respect perhaps most, above all others, and perhaps above many many other people spent her career tending to the sick, the dying, the elderly and the poor.

She taught me that one doesn't have to believe in god to be a saint (at least, in the euphemistic sense).

So retroactively, but not too late because I told her this before she died, 'thanks Mom' .

Jasmin said...

There are many thing in life that cannot be seen or explained but can be experience... One individual can have a unique experience, which can not be readily transferred or handed over to another to enjoy. To replicate that experience you must recreate the similar conditions to truely comprehend the scope... God is one of those experiences.... most people look at God as a physical object to be discovered...

Lets for a second accept that God exists and He is the creator of not just Earth but the vast universes beyond... In most instances, in our dimension (this world) The creator is much larger and intellegent than what he creates. God is that way... God is too.... More vast than his creation... Imagine some one trying to comprehend the scope and the parameters of a mountain with a microscope.... That is what you are doing....Asking me to prove what God is?... if you would like to experience God then you must set the circumstances both physical and state of mind of Bethany... Although i am not a christain, but a Sikh... The same God exists in all...

In Sikhism, a foolish man asked a saint to prove to him the existance of God.."If i dont see God He does not exist!"...The saint slapped the man on his face... the foolish man ask the saint why he resorted to slapping him for the inquiry... The saint asked him why questioning his slapping him.. the foolish man explained that the slap gives him pain.... The saint said show me your pain.. you are lying i don't see any pain...Give me physical proof of what you are feeling... If you are truely feeling this thing called pain and if it truely exsists put it in my hand and i will take the pain from you..... God is not something you just physically hand over... If you want to experience God then you must follow a discipline...

If you want a degree in Math you must follow a ciriculum and physically attend college or university ... You my friend refuse to attend elementry school and wanting to recieve a bachelor degree...

If you want to have knowledge of God's vastness then open your mind to accepting God as a start...then attend a school of your choice ... eg. pick a religion....

once you have experienced that then make judgement calls on people with faith... until then dont expect people to hand God to you on a platter.... You are not capable of handling the wieght...

Karyssa said...

i dunno if u were just using sarcasm, or if ur actually sorry for hurting me, but anyway, the point is, that ur trying to make light of this event and of what Bethany thinks.... so why not just let it be; we think wut we want, and u think wut u want!! i never said that ppl couldnt survive a 15 foot foot fall, all i said wuz that ppl couldnt survive a 15 foot fall ONTOP OF SPEAKERS and AMPS!! i dont know wut kind of twisted mind u may have, but i dont appreciate you dissing me and mi friends the way that you are!! so, if u wanna disrespect somebody, dont let it be me or mi friends!! i dont judge u, so why should you feel that you have the right to judge me??

how old r u anyway??

dont ya have anything better to do than mock some 14 yr old girls???

Karyssa said...

if ur mom did die, then i'm sorry, but dont try and make a softi out of me, cuz it just doenst work that way!!

Karyssa said...

if ur mom did die, then i'm sorry, but dont try and make a softi out of me, cuz it just doenst work that way!!

Spamfighter said...

Karyssa, Jasmin, Bethany:

Do you see the pretty slide show, the black & white one second from the top?

Take a closer look. Do you know where it was shot?

Jerusalem, at the Jaffa Gate, mere steps away from the via del rosa.
I stood there for a time, and took pictures of people as the walked by, at regular intervals.

It is also avilable here:
http://picasaweb.google.com/spamfighter/Jerusalem05072001

Now, most, if not all of those people are devout believers in God. So, which one is right? Whose God is the right one?

More terror and hate and intolerance and pain has come from religion; wars fought, people tortured, dead bodies piling up to this day, than over any other reason. Take a look at your history books.

Two days after I took those shots, some Muslim asshole left a bomb ten feet from where I was standing and blew up some innocent people, in the name of religion.

Two weeks after that, the day before I left Israel, I went onto my hotel balcony in Tel Aviv just before dusk. There were people setting up chairs on the beach, facing the sea.

tThe sun began to set and people, kids, kids YOUR age began to fill the plastic chairs, and watch the sun go down. It was a thing of beauty. Afterwards, they all walked over to a near by disco and danced the night away, like they did every saturday night. As kids should.

two week after that, another asshole Muslim walked into the disco and blew himself up. he killed I think 60 children like yourselves. he injured hundreds.
Where was God then? Why did God not protect those innocent lovely children? His aim was off dear girls, or he does not exist.

My heart aches to this day thinking about the kids I saw, now with their precious bodies disfigured, ripped apart, having obscenity visited upon them, in the name of religion, in the name of god.

So, please, I'll make fun of your beliefs, it is my right to do so, as deeply held as it is your right to those beliefs, but whether I do or not, whether I challenge you or not, your job in life is to be a good person, whether or not you believe in god.

peace.

Karyssa said...

"Do you see the pretty slide show, the black & white one second from the top?"

there's no slideshow at the top of the page

"Jerusalem, at the Jaffa Gate, mere steps away from the via del rosa.
I stood there for a time, and took pictures of people as the walked by, at regular intervals."

ok, ummm... wut does that have to do with anything??

"Two days after I took those shots, some Muslim asshole left a bomb ten feet from where I was standing and blew up some innocent people, in the name of religion."

and again, if some guy wants to blow up ppl, then thats his problem, wut does it have to do with us or God??

"It was a thing of beauty."

since when did u become such a softi??

"The sun began to set and people, kids, kids YOUR age "

wuttdya mean kids my age.... u dont even know how old i am!? so, wut, are u not a kid? how old r u?

God doesnt protect against mans stupidity, he protects against things that will actually concern him!! so, if some random guy wants to blow himself up, then thats his own choice.... everytime somebody does something idiotic, God's not gonna pop up and go "oh now! someone's in trouble, i better go and save them!!"

anyways, why iz ur grammar and junck so good, are u like some crazy english teacher or somehting??

Jasmin said...

you asked a specific question and i answered your question ... it is your job to implement my suggestions to find the answer to your original inquiry... to just blabber on about irrelavant topic and attempt to continue on a debate ... is not a mature response on your part...Are you just wanting to debate or looking for real answer for your emptiness...

By the way, God doesnot have a religion...He is the creator of all... irrespective of you religion or there of lack of it...Religion is only a vehicle to realizing the uncomprehencable... best of luck in your persuit to happiness and finding the God which exists inside of you ....

Spamfighter said...

Lets for a second accept that God exists

not even for a second.


Although i am not a christain, but a Sikh... The same God exists in all...

Ok, let's go with that. Ever heard of Babbar Khalsa?

In Sikhism, a foolish man

Let me stop you right there. Why is a non-believer referred to in a pejorative fashion? Are we that frightening that atheists must be referred to in such fashion? Only the foolish, the stupid would dare to question?

if you don't believe in a physical manifestation of pain then you aren't looking. Go visit your friend Bethany. Go to an oncology ward at a hospital.

You would insult both your friend and the cancer patients at said hospital were you to say 'you only believe you are in pain'.

Pain has very very real physical manifestations, and is scientifically provable.

Your little parable is silly, I'm afraid.

Karyssa wrote:

if ur mom did die, then i'm sorry, but dont try and make a softi out of me, cuz it just doenst work that way!!

Of course she died. I wasn't looking to use that as a way of softening you up. i was merely making the point that she was a atheist but did more to comfort people than most people. She was definitively a good person. I think there are plenty of good people who don't believe in god, and aren't foolish.

I, on the other hand, think people who believe in god are foolish. it think that people who believe in god and miracles are particularly foolish, those that believe in their inherent superiority due to their beliefs offensive, and those that kill in the name of religion murderers and terrorists.
Since you asked, I'm old by your standards, I'm 48, and no today was a day off, so I didn't have anything better to do than debate some 14 year olds about religion (it's rainy outside).

Most days, i spend my time doing stuff not uite as helpful to society as my Mom, but I try to help people with my work, protecting people on the net, in a way, honoring what she taught me. (google spamfighter, you'll see what i mean.

Oh, lastly, no, i don't think people die from falling on speakers, even from 1 feet.

I used to be a band manager. One time we had a gig in Toronto and were driving home to Montreal. A wheel blew. I was in the back with speakers, drums, guitars, and luggage. We spun twice, drove off the road, and rolled three times.

i got stitches in my head for a small cut.

And heck no I wasn't being sarcastic about Bethany and my best wishes.

Send me an address and I'll happily send her a get-well note and some flowers. For real.

Later ladies. Just think about what I've said. Consider it. Open your minds to the possibility. You'll be more enjoyable people as a result (debate about religious matters is a long-standing tradition, and challenges to your faith should be no problem. Read about the Jesuits. Those guys are scary good arguers.)

Spamfighter said...

,anyways, why iz ur grammar and junck so good, are u like some crazy english teacher or somehting??

Heh. No, though my undergraduate studies were in English Literature, (with a minor in music composition).

Jasmin - i asked you to prove the existance of god, you did nothing of the sort. You quoted back a silly story about pain not having a physical manifestation, which is patently false, as a way of proving that things we do not have scientific proof for exist.

please try again. I'm willing to listen and debate you, but you must do better than that. THINK it through. Don't quote me stories someone told you to convince you to believe. Offer me proof. Solid, verifiable proof.

Karyssa said...

ok, but u are one of the rudest ppl ive ever talked to!! for you not even to hear us out!! and if ur gonna send flowers to her, then why not the other 40 who wwere hurt just as bad or even worse than her!! ur just some random guy tryin to put others down to lift up urself!! if ur actually 48, dont us "kids" deserve a little respect from u elders?? would u ever talk to ur own kids (i dont care if u have kids or not) like that? tell them to burn in hell? i dont really care who you think that you are, but dont disrespect me, or my friends!! i dont disrespect u, so i expect you to not disrespect me!!

Spamfighter said...

Whoops. The girl's right. No slideshow here. I meant on the main page.

http://spamfighter666.blogspot.com/

Spamfighter said...

you asked a specific question and i answered your question ...


You did no such thing. I asked you to prove the existance of god. you told me a story about pain not being real.

it is your job to implement my suggestions to find the answer to your original inquiry...

You made no suggestions.

to just blabber on about irrelavant topic and attempt to continue on a debate ... is not a mature response on your part...

I know appearing to be mature is very important to 14 year old girls, but not everyone who disagrees with you is 'immature'. nothing I wrote was irrelevant. read it again. It isn't deep.

Are you just wanting to debate or looking for real answer for your emptiness...

I don't have any emptiness so I guess my final answer would be "debate". What do I win?

Spamfighter said...

ok, but u are one of the rudest ppl ive ever talked to!!

That could be.

for you not even to hear us out!!

I heard what you have to say. God is good. god pushed your friends into a pit and failed to catch them, or something, and I'm foolish and mean because I'm saying god doesn't exist. yeah, i got it.

,and if ur gonna send flowers to her, then why not the other 40 who wwere hurt just as bad or even worse than her!!

Because we started out talking about your specific concern for Bethany? because Bethany spouted off to the press about her religious foolishness? The voice of god spoke to her? Give me a break. The girl is hearing things. now, that may be due to her fall, but I'd have that looked into.

dont us "kids" deserve a little respect from u elders??

Absolutely, you deserve no more nor no less respect than anyone else. it might shock you to note, I'm treating you like an adult.

would u ever talk to ur own kids (i dont care if u have kids or not) like that? tell them to burn in hell?

re-read what i said. i said, if she was lying, she had committed a venal sin, and would burn in hell. i didn't say she should, not should she have any ill befall her, for that matter. I don't wish ill on anyone. Well, except religious extremists and other bad people. I don't think you guys are either, for the record.

dont really care who you think that you are, but dont disrespect me, or my friends!! i dont disrespect u, so i expect you to not disrespect me!!

I do not disrespect you by debating you. In fact, debate shows my respect for you: accepting, considering, and rejecting, point by point your comments takes time and an expenditure of thought and energy. Were i to disrespect you, I would not have published ALL your comments on my blog, without reservation. i could have just as easily deleted them. but I didn't. I respect you, and honor your rights to hold your thoughts dear.

Insofar as Bethany is concerned, once she spoke to the press and her comments published, her words, like your on this blog, become open to public criticism and analysis.

The question then becomes if lampoon and parody is disrespectful. I expect to a degree it is. Let's put it this way though. if this is the biggest affront to her (or your) life today, then she has a pretty good life.

i'd say your friend Bethany has some pretty ferociously solid friends, (you two, and I'm sure, others) and that's great. You stand up for her, Got her back. Cool.

That doesn't mean she isn't above reproach, or criticism. I'm sure you've told her a certain dress doesn't look great on her, or the way she now cuts her hair looks way better than it did before.

All I'm suggesting is she lose the god stuff when explaining why stuff happened. A caring god would not have let that happen, nwow would he?

Gabe said...

Hey spamfighter, you seriously think there is no scientific proof of Christs existence? Okay try this on for size...There is more historical evidense if Christs existence than any other form of topic. Try the BC. DC eras, Before Christ, After Death, we cant base our timeline on something inexistent right? Therefore, there is some evidence.Jesus was not a vengeful person, cuz vengeful people dont die for all the sins of the world. Hey why dont we throw you down a 15 foot hole with cement flooring at the bottom and throw some pews on you and add about 60 more people on top of that and we'll see if its a miracle your still alive. I seriously think you also need more logic, though you seem to have the intellegent of the average cantaloupe your strongly focused on putting down the fact that there may be a God. Why dont you take some time to read this book, its really nifty, its called a BIBLE, spelt B-I-B-L-E it is SCIENTIFICALLY proven to be the most historically proven and correct peice of primary source to ever have been set eyes on, and lets see what you have to say about that. God has a plan for all of us, it may end peacfully, much like you mother, but consider yourself lucky. God could have planned her you be blown to peices in a violent fury of dying children and fire. Why doesnt he just make everybody die peacefully you may ask? In rebutle to that I ask, Who are we to question the person who created the mass of stupidity we call the Earth? Its not his fault there is sin, Its man, so technically shouldnt you be asking "Why did we create sin?" If Adam and Eve had not taken a bite of the fruit due to temptation then we wouldnt be having this conversation at this moment. There would be no guns, death (yes death), violence, ect...I would like to point out to you that they were people JUST like you. IGNORANT. You are denying what you obviously know nothing about. If you can give me some evidence that God DOESNT exist I may be able to have a resonable argument with you.

Gabe said...

Hello, I would further like to discuss this with you via MY blog...read and comment

Spamfighter said...

It doesn't get any better than Mr. Gabriel Lang.

He worships heathen gods, on top of regular ones, just coverin' the bases I guess.

# Astrological Sign: Scorpio
# Zodiac Year: Rooster

Here's a hint, Gabe, there are other calendars out there besides the Gregorian.

The Julian, Islamic, and Hebrew calendars, for example. So who is right there? The ubiquitous spread of Christianity is what made the Gregorian (which was adjusted, by the way - look up "Gregorian Reform").

Insofar as your statement about the bible being historically proven scientific fact you are very wrong. Please provide the citations to back up your assertion (in other words, who told you that? they are spoon-feeding you garbage, and you are eating it up. Think for yourself!).

According to your beliefs, Adam & Eve existed what, 5768 years ago (taking into account old and new testaments)? So, uhmmm, how do i ut this? All that scientific evidence of the age of the earth being about 4.5 billion years old, what is that? Scientists making stuff up God waving his hand around all hocus-pocus like to cloud our minds? Why not just c'mon down here from heaven and tell it to us straight, like he did all the time in the bible (I hope I spelled that correctly).

I imagine it is a hard thing to do when you don't exist.

Jasmin said...

This is an interesting read...
won't hurt to read it spamfighter
http://www.realsikhism.com/testimonies/atheism.html

MattyboyBlue said...

kk buddy im Beth friend from school and seriously dude you have no clue hwo to live life. If all do all day is sit around ur computer and right ur dumb blogs bout how christians suck, ur a loser. Stop acting like your smart and get smart. The smartest thing ull ever do is realizing jesus died for your sins and saved you!! You don't have to love him, but he will always love you and there is still chance for you redemtion. Also idiot God saved everyone at that concert hmmm I wonder no one ended up dying and it was a Christain rock band, and in a church maybe that has something to say about God looking out for you... by the way if your soo smart find solid proof of evolution.. its not possible because it didnt happen God created all living beings and if u dont love him for your creation. Ur the one that can burn in hell Not Karyssa my friend, but you at least if she believes in god and sins she cna be forgived you cant even soo your just dead anyways. by the way If you haven't noticed all these people are trying to make you christian because they care bout you. SOO GETT OFF UR FRICKIN CFF LAPTOP AND INSTEAD OF MOPING HOW GOD SUX!! WHY DONT YOU GIVE IT A TRY!!!!


PS.... Jesus Loves youu!

Spamfighter said...

OK Kids, today's a work-day for me so I'll post your comments, but responses will have to wait. Thanks for driving traffic to my blog.

Here's a tip for the day: Question everything, especially authority (that means 'your elders'. Nobody has a monopoly on the truth.

Spamfighter said...

Jasmin sent me a link to the following:

"John Smith from Atheist Society Writes About Sikhism"

http://www.realsikhism.com/testimonies/atheism.html

Jasmin, read that letter again with a critical eye. You are clearly intelligent (and thank you for dropping the idiotic online teen-speak when conversing with me) enough to do so.

I'd say it is clear that whomever wrote the supposed letter was not a natural English speaker, it is his or her second language (not the lack otf the word 'the' in the title, for example.

That person is also a bigot, talking about New York Taxi drivers as all being sihks, and Hitler is cited as an authority.

This letter from Atheist Society (an organization that simply doesn't exist) is clearly fake.

their supposed inability to criticize Sikhism is fraudulent, it is a way of promoting Sikhism, and is very likely written by a member of that faith.

read it from that point of view and tell me if you don't see it.

Get critical of things online. Don't believe everything they give you to read in Abbottsford. the elders have an agenda.

Gabe said...

I am not a personal friend of Bethany. I have only ever spoken a sentence or two to her. I have liked her in the past but thats of no matter here. I do still care about her, and am sickened by people like you who critisize her when she is lucky to be alive. You make it sound like you'de be more satisfied if the headlines said "Teenagers Killed in Floor Collapse" Though that may not be what you are thinking/saying, you should probably have a bit more versatility when it comes to religion, you have absolutely no authority to tell us. 3 young teenagers still to find out what is truth or not, what we were born under is garbage. What authority?

Karyssa said...

kay, so listen here, if you think that that atheist organization is fake, just type it into google!!

evrybody has the right to choose religion or not, and wut religion they want.... if we want to live a life of hapiness, then i dont see why that has to bother you so much!!

and yes, Jesus Christ is going to be coming back down to earth again, but he'll come back in his own time, but if u choose to let that bother you so much, then thats not our problem!!

dont u have family or pets to care for? u know, something to actually do rather that just go back and forth with each other!! we all back eachother up!! rather than having some old guy trying to prove our theorys wrong!!

Spamfighter said...

dont u have family or pets to care for? u know, something to actually do rather that just go back and forth with each other!!

You are writing into my blog. I will respond as I see appropriate

we all back eachother up!! rather than having some old guy trying to prove our theorys wrong!!

Theories. Finally, a break-through! Not fact, fiction is what you believe.

Spamfighter said...

question: since I don't believe in Jesus Christ Almighty is my soul destined to damnation?

Gabe said...

punYes actually it does...No God = No Heaven = Hell = Bad, God = Heaven = Happy

Spamfighter said...

Ok then Gabe, you better get with your pal Jasmin because she is clearly destined for hell fire. There's no Jesus in her religion.

by the way, please look up the word 'pun' in a dictionary. You are mis-using it.

Karyssa said...

no, i meant theory in that it is wut we believe is true....because every religion has different beliefs as to wut is true, and it just so happened that in our religion, it is fact that God is indeed real!!

to atheists, all religions are theories!!

and yes us soul is destined to damnation cuz ur not saved!! so, think soon!!

Karyssa said...

why are u talkin about jasmin and her religion?? atleast she believes that the deaths at the church's collapse was because of the hand of God, and that God didnt cause it!!

Jasmin said...

okay SpamFighter...instead of trying to turn the tables (so to speak) in this discussion, I think you should be mature, because your responses are beginning to reflect your own closeminded ideology. Everyone is entitled to the own beliefs and that does not exclude you, however, going so far as to insult someone for their own personal beliefs is wrong. There's no other way to sugar-coat it. Despite your own personal disposition to the entire situation, you as a human-being should respect the beliefs of other individuals. What kind of world do we live in when a person can't express their opinions without being slandered and mocked? This goes beyond personal religious beliefs: this is about Bethany's right to say what she believes.

In response, I already know you will say "But don't I have a right to say what I want to?" Yes you do, but does that make our world or society any better? I have nothing left to say and as well I would like to say I have no grievance about your opions because you have clearly expressed that you are not open to ideas other than your own.

You said to disobey authority. What makes you think we are mindless clones only believing what we are taught and told to believe? To be honest I think that your posts have reflected how narrow-minded you yourself are. But anyways, theres no point talking to someone who refuses to listen. I won't be checking your blog any more because like your quote above says "An unread blog is not worth writing."

Karyssa said...

oops!!i totally said the deaths at the church!! oops, i meant that atleast she believes that the reason everyone's still alive after the church's collapse was because of the hand of God, and that God didnt cause it!!

again, oops!!

Karyssa said...

oops!!i totally said the deaths at the church!! oops, i meant that atleast she believes that the reason everyone's still alive after the church's collapse was because of the hand of God, and that God didnt cause it!!

again, oops!!

Spamfighter said...

Karyssa:

Jasmin is doomed to an eternity in hell, because according to Gabe (and the New testament), if one doesn't believe in Christ, one is so destined, as do you - you told me I wasn't saved. Jasmin isn't saved either. no Christ, no saving. no saving hellfire for eternity. Look it up. Gabe says it is spelled b-i-b-l-e. You'll find it there.

Or ask one of your elders. If I am damned, so is she. poor girl. Except, of course, I don't believe any of this hogwash, and I think she'll be just fine. As will I.

J.D. said...

Wow, so much hatred (and so many misspellings) from the people who claim to be religious. Pretty much every religion teaches people to get along with each other; I guess you haven't learned that lesson yet?

Go talk to your religious leaders. Bring them a printout of this entire conversation. Will they recommend that you continue to attempt to make personal attacks against someone you don't know, or will they encourage you to try to understand & forgive his point of view?

I bet you already know the answer.

Jasmin said...

Wow Spamfighter, that afraid to post my comment?

Bethany said...

Oh hey there Spamfighter,
This is Bethany
I would really appreciate it if you would stop posting comments about me on the internet because of what i said on a news report.
The experience was very tramatizing. I don't know if your relized or not but you are arguing with a bunch of high schoolers. I don't know how old you are and i don't want to know how old you are because quite frankly you freak me out. I'm not going to tell you to believe in God so you wont go to hell because i just don't roll like that. When i read your blog on the internet i started crying for you just because i felt so bad for you. And yes i do like God and everything.

Bethany said...

hey spammy

Spamfighter said...

Jasmin asked if I was 'afraid' to post her comment.

No Jasmin, I'm not afraid, I think we both know that, but I'm disappointed. You lied when you said "I won't be checking your blog any more". Venial sin that. Maybe your friends can consult on how to address that matter.

Your post was very articulate and I congratulate you for a very well-written submission.

going so far as to insult someone for their own personal beliefs is wrong

Come on now. Think about that. Bigots and racists have a belief system. Fundamentalist religious people have a belief system. heck perverted child molesters have a belief system (look up NAMBLA if you don't believe me).

Are all of those not to be challenged? According to your statement, logically it follow that they are not.

Not only am I being mature, but I am treating you all as being mature, as adults, because I believe that is the way you should be treated.

I am challenging your beliefs. Yes, Bethany (and thank you for writing in too - I'm glad you are well enough to post!), i lampooned you.

Had I know you and your crew were 14 at the time (this only came out later, and was not in the news report) I probably might have tempered my comments somewhat, but the end result would be the same.

If the hand of god was anywhere to be found, anywhere at all, why did HE allow you to fall?

I've still waiting for scientific proof of the existance of god, guys.

And an answer to the dichotomy about the earth's age according to science, and that asserted by the fiction in the Bible.

Here's something more to think about.

the old testament was passed down from generation to generation at first orally (as were the gospels) and eventually trusted to the wise men of the tribes to inscribe, to write down.

Do you think they got the supposed word of god exactly right? No mistakes?

If you do - do a little research. Do you know the story of King Solomon and the two women with one baby, which supposedly demonstrates his wisdom? If you don't, let me reproduce it for you:

In olden times there ruled a great and powerful king, whose name was Solomon. All the land of Israel was under his sway, and there was no one so rich or so honoured on the face of the earth.
Upon succeeding to the throne, Solomon had been filled with awe at the mightiness of the task before him, and in the humility of his heart, prayed for the wisdom to govern justly.
“For,” he said, “I am but a little child, and how should I discern between right and wrong?
His wish was granted and, above and beyond his wealth and honour, Solomon was famed for his wisdom.

One day two women came before the King. They carried with them a little baby, which was set down on the floor, at the foot of Solomon’s throne
“O my lord,” said one of the women, “five days ago I gave birth to a child. This woman and I live in the same house, and three days later she also gave birth, but that same night her child died, and at midnight she arose and, while I was sleeping, took my son away from me, and laid her dead child in its place. When I awoke in the morning I thought at first that my son was dead, until I realised that it was not my child.”
“No,” interrupted the second woman, “she lies, my lord, she lies! The living child is mine and the dead is hers!”
“No,” cried the first woman, wildly. “No, the dead child is yours, and the living child is mine.”
King Solomon raised his hand for silence.
“One of you says ‘my child lives and yours is dead ’, and the other says ‘your child is dead and my child lives’: there is a simple way to resolve the matter. Bring me a sword.”
A sword was brought, and the assembly waited to see how the King would proceed.
“Very well,” he said, “ cut the child in two, and give half to one mother, and half to the other.”
The first woman turned pale.
“O my lord,” she said in a faltering voice. “Pray, give her the child. I beg you, do not kill it.”
But the other woman’s face remained hard.
“Let it be neither mine nor yours,” she said, “divide it as the King has ordained.”
Then Solomon arose, and pointed to the first woman.
“The child belongs to her, ” he said. “Give her the child, and do not kill it. She is its mother.”
Word of this judgement spread throughout Israel, and people marvelled at the wisdom of the King.


OK, despite the spelling mistakes and this being labelled, erroneously, 'real history' (it can be found at http://www.jamboree.freedom-in-education.co.uk/real_history/solomon.htm )

the actual fact is is that this story was inserted as a parable, an analogy to a situation in Israel at the time. The various tribes were on the brink of civil war, and there was much discussion about who the true king of Israel was at that point.

One proposal, a very bad one, was to divide the kingdom up between the tribes.

In other words, the story with th baby didn't happen, but there it sits, as a politicla analogy, right in the Bible. Word of God.

Jasmin, in your religion, the gurus went around doing miracles. Not to big up themselves but out of compassion for others. where is the compassion of letting your friends fall at a dance that was devotional? makes no sense?

Think about it.

bottom line, again, the world is a terrible hard place sometimes. God doesn't exist as a real thing.

That doesn't make the lessons we learn from the bible, and the Kur'an and the Sri - Gur Granth Sahib are wrong, for the most part. Just look for the bottom line meaning. it isn't if Jasmin believes in jesus christ, or i believe in God, it is whether or not, on a daily basis, we do our very best to conduct ourselves as good people, we don't lie, or cheat or steal, or murder or hurt one another.

That is where god lives, that is the word of god, whether he exists or not. for real.

i try my best to do that, to follow the example set by my Mom, she happened to be a great woman. if your parents aren't so great, pick a good example of a great person and follow it.

Richard Branson recently set up something called The Elders. Any one of those is a wonderful role model of a person who has devoted their lives to the betterment of mankind.

I'd say they are my god. I respect the heck out of them all, and wish I could be more like them, everyday.

Sometimes i fail. No, every day i fail at that but it doesn't stop me from trying.

two days ago, I made fun of a nice kid who had a terrible accident happen to her. not about the accident, but what she said to the press afterwards. I was wrong for having done so Bethany, I really didn't mean to make you cry, and I apologize. I figured you were in college, and at least would have been a little les fragile. So, sorry.

Now, go with God, or Vishnu, or Allah, or Jimmy Carter or Nelson Mandella, and make the world a better place for your kids.

And don't worry so much about that god guy. He'll be fine whether you believe in him or not, so long as you act in a god-like fashion, adn make us all proud.

Which i am sure you will

Vadersfist82nd said...

dang this whole conversation is over, I missed out on a good debate. If I had posted earlier I would have wooped yo' assssssssssssssss. But other than that you actually made Bethany cry? You're heartless man. How the heck does she look like she's in College? She doesn't even look like an adult (No offense to you Beth). You live in Canada right? Because it would be pretty cool if this made international news.

MattyboyBlue said...

You just don' get it do you? YOU ARE GOING TO DIE!! I don't mean your physical body is going to die and your amily an friends will bury you. I mean your soul, YOU ARE GOIN TO BURNN IN HELL!!! You are going to suffer. Jesus gives you as many chances as you need to beleive, but obviously you have turned all them down. For insance now is one of those chances. You could easily say maybe he is real pick upa bible and read do ome research see what you think and it is ver obvious you are fearful of the Lord and don't realizewhat he has done for you. If a man klled himself to stop a hijacked plane he is called a hero, but when Jesus dies to save the entire human civilization what is he called a heratic,a fake,and a blasphemy. Now in mopinion if you don't feel deep down inside a feeling of sadness you are a heartless wrench. Hecarried the sns of the entire world on his shoulders in Hell for three days. Try to carry all that weight on your shoulders and tll me how it feels. Now you can say the floor collapsing is a random occurence, sure go ahead, but it's not Gods fault, it is shotty workmenship.
God saved everyone there that night and yeah youcan be liek noo God just hates everyones and is vengeful, but noo it's not like that at all. The fact that god watched out foreverone durng the insident is really cool. You are saying you areliving a goodlife without any god, but youfeel the hole in your heart and you know it. You are ignorant, and need to getsome smarts aout the world around you. I have eneverin my life met such a stubborn and hostile athiest before you would be the first. That just proves to me you are looking for answers and taking the wrong path. So you research to coverup the hole but you never seem to fil it in anduntil you come toa realization you wil never fill it. Then you will die and i don't mean physically.

Gabe said...

Leave Jasmin out of this. I applaude you for a witty rebutle but the fact of the matter is, You have no right to tell us that what we believe is false. Thats like telling a hopefull paralyzed child he will never win a marathon. I dont care who is "winning" so to speak, this argument but im going to conclude with this: Just lay off, like seriously there is no reason to publicly critisize our beleifs. Bethany was willing to speak her beliefs on a astronomically large public scale. My friend in Edmonton phoned me about the accident to see if i was in it, and when i told him about Bethany being in my school, he brought up that she was in the news. She was brave enough to speak her beliefs and I doubt that she contemplated some middle-aged man, who sits in front of his omputer, arguing with teenagers, barely living of his McJob. If you have opinions about something that could potentially harm someone, spiritually, and emotionally then kepp it to yourself.

"For the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Jesus christ our Lord"
Romans 6: 23

From the B-I-B-L-E

P.S. i accedentaly wrote pun in the one comment. Its just a typo.

Gabe said...

Spamfighter, I will tell you what sets us apart from other religions and other gods (Buddha, Mohammed, etc). Jesus Christ. While lots of other gods have died, Jesus Christ is the only one who rose from the dead. This is not just hope, it is fact. (Read the book "the new evidence that requires a verdict" by Josh McDowell.)

Just one question for you, What if you are wrong and your 'good life' really counts for nothing?

I will continue to live my life as a believer and follower of Jesus Christ, regardless of what you or anyone else says. You can insult me personally because I can't spell really well, or I misuse the word pun. But you cannot shake the person I am in Jesus Christ.

On another note:
The bible says in 1 Peter 3:15-16 "Worship Christ as Lord of your life, and if you are asked about your Christian hope always be ready to explain it, but do it in a gentle and respectful way, keep your conscience clear". My conscience is not clear and I would like to apologize if anything I said came across as disrespectful or unkind. I found this verse after I wrote my comments to you while I was looking through my Bible to find my response to you. While I do not agree with you, you have, in this lifetime, the right to make a choice, just like I do.

I won't be reading your blog again. But I will be praying for you. I hope you find what you are looking for.

Karyssa said...

kay, u know wut, u cant change mi mind, and if u thot we were in college, u have no right to talk to us that way!! the news said we were 15, and i told u earli on that we were all in grade 9!! so,

Spamfighter said...

Kay, u no what Karyssa? Yeah, I can change my mind, that's part of being smart.

You may be in grade 9, but you read and write at a grade 4 level. Have Jasmin explain it to you, she is clearly the smart one.

The news report that started this thread made no mention of ages.

Insofar as having a right to respond to people the way I feel like it, uh, yeah honey, I do. You wrote to me.

Bye now. this thread is done.

Spamfighter said...

Spamfighter, I will tell you what sets us apart from other religions and other gods (Buddha, Mohammed, etc). Jesus Christ. While lots of other gods have died, Jesus Christ is the only one who rose from the dead.

Just one question for you, What if you are wrong and your 'good life' really counts for nothing?



What if you waste your life waiting for nothing instead of living it in a good and proper manner. Writing songs like 9MM Heart break, you are death walking among his friends, Gabe. of course Jesus will absolve you for your sins, right? Makes everything you do OK, so long as you believe?

Bullshit.

Such hate from such young people! Abbottsford is known as a centre of religious ... let's call it zealotry, but it is sad to see it seep into the hearts of their young.

You just don' get it do you? YOU ARE GOING TO DIE!! I don't mean your physical body is going to die and your amily an friends will bury you. I mean your soul, YOU ARE GOIN TO BURNN IN HELL!!!

So, tell it to Jasmin. C'mon guys, get real, if I am going to burn in hell, I'll save a seat for Jasmin, because she will too.

how can you associate with her? her non-belief might rub off on you? She is a heathen, and must be cast out.

By now you are outraged. As well you should be. because your religion says exactly that - non-believers are to be cast out.

So you make up your minds - is Jasmin your friend, or someone to be cast out?